* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] JUNE 10TH, PLANNING AND ZONING, COMMISSION MEETING TO ORDER IF EVERYONE WOULD PLEASE RISE FOR THE INVOCATION. FATHER IN HEAVEN WE'RE SO THANKFUL FOR TODAY. AND FATHER, WE'RE THANKFUL FOR THE REPLENISHING RAIN THAT WE'VE ENJOYED THIS SPRING. FATHER, WE'RE ALWAYS THANKFUL FOR MANY BLESSINGS THAT WE HAVE. FATHER, THIS EVENING, AS WE MAKE DECISIONS THAT AFFECT OUR CITIZENS, PLEASE GUIDE US AND DIRECT US. FATHER, PLEASE FORGIVE US WHEN WE FALL SHORT. IN YOUR SON'S NAME WE PRAY. AMEN. AMEN. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA'S, PUBLIC COMMENTS. ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON ANY TOPIC CAN DO SO. NOW [4. Consent Agenda] SEEING NO ONE WE'LL PROCEED TO THE CONSENT AGENDA AND I MIGHT MENTION THAT THE PLAT HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN. SO THE MOTION WILL BE JUST TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF LAST MEETING. UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM LAST MEETING ON. DO I NEED TO KNOW THE DATE? MAY 27TH. MAY 27TH. THANK YOU. WE HAVE MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. WE HAVE MOTION. A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. ANY OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIED. [5. Public Hearing on a request by Alex Lohmann, for a Specific Use Permit (SUP) for an Amusement, Indoor (Haunted House) use within a Light Industrial-2 (LI-2) zoning district located at 500 W Madison Street, Suite B (Property ID 171075) - Owner: Big Blue Truck LLC (ZDC-69-2025)] NEXT ITEM IS A PUBLIC HEARING ON A REQUEST BY ALEX LOWMAN. FOR SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR AN AMUSEMENT INDOOR HAUNTED HOUSE USE WITHIN A LIGHT INDUSTRIAL LI TWO ZONING DISTRICT LOCATED 500 WEST MADISON STREET, SUITE B, PROPERTY ID 1 7 1 0 7 5. OWNER, BIG BLUE TRUCK, L-L-C-Z-D-C DASH 69 DASH 2025. ZACH, THANK YOU CHAIRMAN. AS YOU MENTIONED, A GENINE FIVE FOR ZDC 69 DASH 2025 IS A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT REQUEST FOR AN AMUSEMENT INDOOR USE, SPECIFICALLY A HAUNTED HOUSE. THAT'S GONNA BE THE REINDEER MANOR HAUNTED HOUSE. SOME OF YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH THAT ENTITY. THEY'VE OPERATED IN IN RED OAK FOR A FEW DECADES AND MOST RECENTLY IN GRAND PRAIRIE. UH, THEY DID HAVE A REQUEST A COUPLE YEARS AGO THAT CAME BEFORE THE COMMISSION ON NORTH JACKSON STREET FOR ZONING CHANGE FOR SIMILAR, UH, HAUNTED HOUSE USE HERE. SO THEY'RE BEFORE YOU TONIGHT WITH A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT REQUEST SPECIFICALLY FOR, UH, THE INABILITY TO MEET ONE DEVELOPMENT REGULATION THAT'S TYPICAL FOR AN INDOOR AMUSEMENT USE AND THAT IS PARKING. SO THE INDOOR AMUSEMENT USE IS ALLOWED BY WRIGHT IN THE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL TWO ZONING DISTRICT THAT'S PRESENT ON THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, BUT THEY CAN'T MEET THAT STANDARD PARKING REQUIREMENT. SO THEY WERE DIRECTED TO COME THROUGH THIS SUP OUR SPECIFIC USE PERMIT PROCESS TO RECEIVE APPROVAL OF THE PROJECT BECAUSE OF THAT ONE DEFICIENCY HERE. UH, SINCE THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS, I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ABOUT THE REQUEST HERE. SO THEY'RE PROPOSING TO OPERATE FOR ONE YEAR, UH, SPECIFICALLY NINE NIGHTS IN THIS UPCOMING OCTOBER HALLOWEEN SEASON. THOSE ARE GONNA BE FRIDAY AND SATURDAY NIGHTS. SPECIFICALLY HALLOWEEN NIGHT, THEY'RE LOOKING TO OPERATE BETWEEN 7:00 PM AND 10:00 PM ON THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. AND ALL OTHER NIGHTS THEY'RE LOOKING TO OPERATE BETWEEN 8:30 PM AND 11:30 PM THEY WOULD BE EMPLOYING ABOUT 40 SEASONAL EMPLOYEES ON THE SITE. THEY'RE PROPOSING TO PROVIDE 17 PARKING SPACES. UH, THERE ARE 25 PAVED CONCRETE PARKING SPACES ON THE SITE THAT I DO WANNA NOTE ARE CURRENTLY BEING UTILIZED BY THE OTHER BUSINESSES ON THE SITE. SO THOSE WOULD NOT BE UTILIZED HERE. YOU CAN SEE ON THE SITE PLAN THE SPECIFIC SPACES THEY'RE LOOKING TO UTILIZE ALONG THE SIDE AND THE REAR OF THE BUILDING. THEY HAVE ALSO EXECUTED OFFSITE PARKING AGREEMENTS WITH THE OWNERS OF ADJACENT PROPERTIES AT 3 0 3 PATTERSON STREET, FOUR 10 WEST MADISON STREET, AND FIVE 10 WEST JEFFERSON STREET TO GET 25 DESIGNATED OFFSITE PARKING SPACES. YOU CAN SEE THOSE IDENTIFIED HERE FOR THE REMAINDER OF THEIR PARKING. THEY ARE PROPOSING TO JUST HAVE THEIR PATRONS UTILIZE THE PUBLIC PARKING SPACES DOWNTOWN. THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED A FLOOR PLAN THAT WE'LL LOOK AT IN A MINUTE, BUT BEFORE GETTING TO THAT, I DO WANNA NOTE THE BUILDING DOES HAVE A FUNCTIONAL FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEM THAT'S IN PLACE. THE FIRE MARSHAL HAS VISITED THE SITE TO CONFIRM THAT THAT DO HAVE A DRIVEWAY THAT'S EXTENDING AROUND THE PROPERTY. THE ENTIRETY OF THAT DRIVEWAY IS NOT FULLY IMPROVED, BUT THE FIRE MARSHAL HAS NOTED THAT, UH, IT IT'S GONNA BE A REQUIREMENT OF THEIRS. IT REMAIN UNOBSTRUCTED SO THAT THEY CAN USE THAT DRIVEWAY. UNOBSTRUCTED MEANING, UH, NO PATRONS, NO VEHICLES, NO UH, TENTS OR ANY POP-UP ACTIVITY TAKING PLACE IN THAT DRY VILE HERE. AND FINALLY, THE SITE IS GONNA BE COVERED BY CHAPTER 20 OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH NOISE. THE SPECIFIC SECTION OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES PROHIBITS NOISE THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A NUISANCE OR CONSTITUTE A NUISANCE. SO THAT IS APPLICABLE HERE. THIS IS THE FLOOR PLAN FOR THE SUITE. THAT SUITE IN QUESTION IS GONNA BE SUITE B. IT'S ABOUT 11,000 SQUARE FEET. THIS SHOWS THE INTERIOR LAYOUT THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING AS WELL AS THE STAFF ACCESS AND STAFF ROOM. THE OFFICE FOR THE HAUNTED HOUSE HERE ALSO IMPORTANTLY, SHOWS THE CUSTOMER QUEUING OR WAITING AREA THEY ARE PROPOSING TO MAKE SURE ALL CUSTOMERS ARE WAITING INSIDE THE BUILDING. SO NOT OUTSIDE. THE ENTRANCE TO THE BUILDING IS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING HERE AS WELL AS THE EXIT. SO ALL CUSTOMERS WOULD ENTER FROM THE SOUTH AND QUEUE AND WAIT INSIDE, [00:05:01] NOT OUTSIDE. THIS IS THE PARKING PLAN PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT. A COUPLE THINGS TO NOTE HERE. THEY HAVE IDENTIFIED THE PEDESTRIAN ROUTES FROM THEIR OFFSITE PARKING LOCATIONS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE DIRECTING FOLKS, UH, ALONG TO GET TO THE HAUNTED HOUSE. THEY WILL HAVE SOME TEMPORARY WAYFINDING SIGNAGE THAT IS PLACED AROUND THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. THEY'RE ALSO PROPOSING TO PLACE STAFF MEMBERS AT EACH, UH, OFFSITE PARKING LOCATION TO HELP WITH WAYFINDING AND DIRECT TRAFFIC AND, AND PARKING FOR THE FACILITY. SINCE PUBLISHING THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING, WE HAVE RECEIVED A FEW ADDITIONAL LETTERS OF SUPPORT AND OPPOSITION. FIVE IN SUPPORT TOTAL THREE OPPOSITION. YOU CAN SEE THOSE IDENTIFIED IN RED AND GREEN ON THE SCREEN HERE. AND THIS IS GONNA BE WITHIN THE 200 FOOT NOTIFICATION AREA. STAFF DOES HAVE A FEW SPECIFIC CON CONCERNS THAT I ALLUDED TO, BUT I WANNA BRING UP SPECIFICALLY THAT'S THE PARKING DEFICIT FOR THE SITE. WE DO HAVE CONCERN THAT, UH, THE, THE LACK OF ONSITE PARKING MAY LEAD TO CONGESTION ISSUE IN THE AREA. SO TYPICALLY A USE OF THIS SIZE WOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE 110 PARKING SPACES. THEY'VE GOT A OVER 40 DESIGNATED PARKING SPACES IDENTIFIED BOTH ON AND OFF SITE. THE LACK OF ON STREET PARKING LEADS TO OUR SECOND CONCERN, WHICH IS ACCESS TO THE SITE. UH, THE, THE LACK OF PARKING COULD LEAD FOLKS TO TRY AND PARK ON PATTERSON AND WEST MADISON STREET. THOSE ARE NARROW EXISTING STREETS, UH, THAT IF FOLKS START PARKING ALONG COULD HINDER BOTH PATRON'S ABILITY TO ACCESS THE AREA AND EMERGENCY RESPONSE IN THE UNFORTUNATE INSTANCE THAT EMERGENCY RESPONSES NEEDED TO THE SITE. UH, SO WE HAVE ADDED A RECOMMENDED CONDITION. SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO, UH, RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST THAT THE APPLICANT RESTRICT ON STREET PARKING, UH, FOR THE AREA. UM, MAKE SURE THERE'S NO CUSTOMER WAITING AREAS OUTSIDE. MAKE SURE THERE'S NO FOLKS PARKING OR, OR QUEUING ALONG WEST MADISON STREET OR THAT DRIVE AISLE THAT EXTENDS AROUND THE BUILDING. THE APPLICANT DID HEAR THOSE CONCERNS. THEY PROVIDED A FEW DIRECT RESPONSES TO STAFF THAT YOU CAN SEE IN YOUR STAFF REPORT, BUT I'LL COVER THEM BRIEFLY HERE. ONE WAY THEY'RE LOOKING TO REDUCE THE POTENTIAL FOR CONGESTION AND ADDRESS THE PARKING CONCERN ON THE SITE IS TO REQUIRE PRE-ORDERS FOR TICKETS FOR A SPECIFIC START TIME TO LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF CUSTOMERS THAT WOULD BE ARRIVING ON THE SITE AT ONE TIME. THEY'VE ALSO RECOMMENDED, OR PROPOSED RATHER, AS I NOTED EARLIER, TO PROVIDE DEDICATED STAFF MEMBERS AT KEY POINTS AROUND THE FACILITY, UH, TO HELP WITH PARKING AND WAYFINDING FOR THEIR PATRONS. WITH THAT IN MIND, YOU'LL SEE A COUPLE OF OPTIONS FOR MOTIONS TONIGHT. SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO RECOMMEND, UH, DENIAL OR RECOMMEND APPROVAL FOR THE REQUEST STAFF'S AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. AND I'LL NOTE THE APPLICANT IS HERE AS WELL, IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS FOR THEM. THANK YOU, ZACH. ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF? ZACH, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE, UM, SUPPORT. UH, I SEE THE BUILDING OWNER SUPPORTS IT, BUT THE RESTAURANT DOES IT, DID YOU GET ANYTHING FROM THE RESTAURANT IF THEY'RE IN SUPPORT OF DENIAL? UH, WE DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY SPECIFIC CONTACT FROM THE OPERATOR OF THE RESTAURANT ON SITE. OKAY. HEY ZACH, WHAT'S THE MAX CAPACITY FOR THE BUILDING AS FAR AS OCCUPANCY OF THE SUITE GOES? THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE DETERMINED BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL AT THE TIME THE CERTIFICATE OF OCC OCCUPANCY IS APPLIED FOR AND, AND REVIEWED. UH, SO THE, THE TOTAL MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR THE SUITE JUST YET. I'LL NOTE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD OCCUR. SHOULD THIS SUP REQUEST BE APPROVED, WE WOULD GO TO THAT NEXT STEP. THANK YOU. I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION. I KNOW, I THINK YOU SAID IT, BUT I I WASN'T PUTTING IT ALL IN. WHAT IS THE SHORTAGE IN PARKING ACTUALLY FOR THE SITE? EVEN WITH ALL OF THEIR PARKING MITIGATION? WHAT'S THE ACTUAL SHORTAGE? UH, SO, SO THEY'RE ABOUT 70 SPACES SHORT. OKAY. SO 110 WOULD TYPICALLY BE REQUIRED FOR A SUITE THIS SIZE WITH THIS USE. THEY'RE PROVIDING A LITTLE OVER 40 OFF AND ONSITE PARKING SPACES THAT ARE DEDICATED TO THIS USE. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE? THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. IS THE APPLICANT HERE? YES, SIR. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD? UH, JUST TO CLARIFY ON THE PARKING A LITTLE BIT, UH, WHILE IT IS AN 11,000 SQUARE FOOT SUITE, UH, WE'RE ACTUALLY ONLY USING ABOUT 5,000 FEET FOR THE HAUNTED HOUSE. THE REST OF IT'S JUST GONNA BE FOR STORAGE. SO HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU EXPECT TO SELL TICKETS TO? ABOUT 3,500 OVER THE COURSE OF TWO. IS THAT YOU HAD A PLAN? OKAY. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A PRETTY REASONABLE AMOUNT. AND THAT'S PER NIGHT? NO, MA'AM. THAT IT DID BE ABOUT 300 3500 IS WHAT WE ESTIMATE FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON. SO PER NIGHT, ABOUT 350. OKAY. UH, I WOULD IMAGINE IT'LL BE A LITTLE LIGHTER EARLIER IN THE SEASON. IT MAY BE A LITTLE HEAVIER TOWARD THE END, BUT, UM, AND I KNOW THIS HAS NO BEARING ON TODAY, BUT WE DO KINDA HAVE A PLAN B FOR LONG [00:10:01] TERM. IF THE EVENT DOES HAPPEN AND DOES GET TO GROW, WHAT WE'LL EVENTUALLY DO IS HAVE EVERYBODY PARK IN THE PARKING GARAGE AND THEN WE WANT TO IMPLEMENT SHUTTLES FOR, UH, DOWNTOWN EVENT THAT WE'RE ALSO DOING THIS IS WE KINDA HAVE A BIG CITYWIDE PLAN. AND THIS IS JUST KIND OF THE, THE LAST CHUNK OF THAT PLAN. WOULD THAT BE A TICKETED RIDE OR IS THAT TICKET IT WOULD BE FREE FOR PATRONS TICKET. I'M SORRY? IT WOULD BE FREE. IT WOULD BE FREE. YEAH. WE WOULD COVER THE COST OF THAT AND WE WOULD LIKE WORK WITH THE DOWNTOWN MERCHANTS ABOUT WHO MAYBE WOULD LIKE A STOP IN FRONT OF THEIR PLACE. BUT, UH, WITH US ALSO DOING THE EVENT DOWNTOWN, WE THOUGHT THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD WAY TO TO, TO DEAL WITH THAT. OKAY. UH, I, I SUSPECT THE PARKING WILL PROBABLY BECOME A, A, A BIGGER IMPACT ON OUR WALLETS BEFORE IT WOULD BE A, AN IMPACT ON ANYBODY ELSE. OKAY. YOU, YOU'RE OPERATING IN GRAND PRAIRIE NOW? WE DID THE LAST TWO YEARS. WHAT, WHAT KIND OF, HOW MANY TICKETS DID YOU SELL THERE RELATIVE? WE SOLD, THE FIRST YEAR WE WERE THERE, WE SOLD 3,130 TICKETS. IN THE SECOND YEAR IT WAS TWENTY EIGHT HUNDRED AND SIXTY FIVE. SAME NUMBER OF NIGHTS. USUALLY 809. YES SIR. YEAH. OUR, OUR CALENDARS WERE IDENTICAL THE LAST TWO YEARS. WE, ONCE WE MOVED OUTTA RED OAK, WE SCALED OUR WHOLE OPERATION DOWN. I'M, I'M KIND OF AT A POINT IN MY LIFE WHERE I'M NOT INTERESTED IN MAINTAINING 33 ACRES AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AT A TIME. THIS IS KIND OF MY MOVING MORE INTO RETIREMENT KIND OF VERSION OF THIS. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? DO YOU HAVE A PLAN FOR WHERE YOUR STAFF WILL PARK? THEY'RE GONNA PARK IN THE GARAGE AND THEN WE HAVE A 15 PASSENGER VAN AND A, A, A DRIVER WHO WILL SHUTTLE 'EM BACK AND FORTH AT THE BEGINNING AND THEN AGAIN AT THE END OF THE NIGHT. 'CAUSE PERFECT. YEAH, WE TOLD OUR STAFF, I SAID THERE'S JUST, WE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PARKING THAT WE CAN SACRIFICE. YEAH. THERE IS ONE ADDITIONAL ADDRESS THAT WE HAD TO PULL OUT OF OUR APPLICATION BECAUSE PARTS OF IT CURRENTLY HAVE CARS IN THERE THAT AREN'T MOVING, BUT THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF SPOTS THERE THAT WE DO STILL TECHNICALLY HAVE AVAILABLE AS WELL. AND IF THOSE CARS MOVE IN THE FUTURE, WE WOULD HAVE THOSE ALSO. UM, I BELIEVE THAT WAS LIKE AN ADDITIONAL, IT WAS ALMOST 30 MORE SPOTS OVER THERE, BUT WE DO SELL ACCESS TO THAT. SO IF YOU'RE SELLING TIMED TICKETS, IS THERE A LIMIT TO THE NUMBER THAT YOU'LL SELL FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL TIME SLOT? YES, MA'AM. AND WHAT, WHAT IS THAT LIMIT? RIGHT NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT CAP IN EACH TIME SLOT AT ABOUT 110 AND WE'LL SEE AS PEOPLE'S BUYING HABITS PICK UP WHERE THAT ACTUALLY NEEDS TO BE SHRUNK AND EXPANDED TO TRY TO KEEP OUR FLOW AS EVEN AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. BUT, UM, THAT'S WHAT WE DISCUSSED WITH OUR TICKETING COMPANY WHEN WE TOLD THEM KIND OF WHAT OUR TARGET WAS AND HOW WE WANTED TO GET THERE. AND WE THINK TIME TICKETING'S GONNA BE A GOOD WAY TO, TO HELP THAT. AND IN ALL HONESTY, WHAT WE'RE REALLY HOPING IS THAT PEOPLE WILL PARK CLOSER TO DOWNTOWN AND PATRONIZE OUR BUSINESSES DOWN THERE. AND I WOULD RATHER THEM COME HERE AND EAT AT FARM LUCK THAN EAT SOMEWHERE ELSE ON THEIR WAY IN. UM, THAT, AGAIN, THIS IS KIND OF THE LAST STEP OF OUR WHOLE BIG PLAN, BUT WHAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO DO IS BRING WHAT WE DO BEST, WHICH IS HAUNTING TO WAXAHATCHEE WHERE WE LIVE BECAUSE WE FEEL LIKE WE CAN MAKE A VERY POSITIVE DIFFERENCE ON COMMERCE THAT TIME OF YEAR. MM-HMM . AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE ACTIVITY, UH, DOWNTOWN. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE PEOPLE COMING IN AND HAVING REASONS TO SPEND THEIR MONEY HERE WITHOUT NECESSARILY HAVING TO BE RESIDENTS. AND SO WHEN PEOPLE COME TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, ARE THEY USUALLY COMING BY THEMSELVES IN THEIR CAR OR ARE THEY BRINGING A GROUP? WE NORMALLY AVERAGE FOUR PEOPLE PER CAR. UH, WHEN WE'VE DONE EVENTS IN DALLAS, IT WAS CLOSER TO FIVE MM-HMM . FOR SOME REASON, WHEN WE DO AN EVENT SOUTH OF 24 PER CAR SEEMS TO BE THE AVERAGE HERE, BUT WE GENERALLY COUNT ON FOUR PER CARD IS IS ABOUT THE NORM. OKAY. VERY SELDOM DO WE HAVE PEOPLE SHOW UP ALONE. THERE ARE A FEW WHO ARE JUST THAT DIEHARD, BUT FOR THE MOST PART IT'S A GROUP ACTIVITY. AND GENERALLY FROM THE TIME THEY COME IN THE DOOR TO THE TIME THEY LEAVE, SHOULD BE A TIME LAPSE OF SOMEWHERE RIGHT AROUND 40 TO 45 MINUTES, GIVE OR TAKE. OKAY. IS THERE AN AGE LIMIT? I MEAN, IS IT OPEN TO ANYONE? IT IS. OKAY. WE GENERALLY DON'T RECOMMEND IT FOR ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 13 OR 14. GOTCHA. YOU KNOW, MID TEENS ARE GENERALLY FINE. SURE. UM, BUT WE KINDA LEAVE THAT UP TO THE PARENTS. THERE ARE PLENTY OF VERY YOUNG CHILDREN THAT PARENTS BRING AND THEY HAVE AN ABSOLUTE BLAST AND THAT SUITS ME FINE. BUT, UM, THE CHILD FRIENDLY EVENT IS KIND OF WHERE WE'RE MAKING UP THAT SLACK AND THAT'S GEARED FOR CHILDREN AGES TWO TO SEVEN. GOTCHA. THANK YOU. SO IS 1130 DOORS CLOSED? THAT'LL BE TICKET BOOTH CLOSED AND THEN WE'LL PROBABLY BE WRAPPED UP IN THE NEXT HALF HOUR AFTER THAT. OKAY. BUT THAT WAY IT KIND OF KEEPS IT FROM CLOSING AT MIDNIGHT AND THEN DRAGGING ON FOR [00:15:01] A WHILE BECAUSE WE NORMALLY SEE A PRETTY SHARP DECLINE IN TICKET SALES AFTER ABOUT 1115 ANYWAY. SO WE FIGURED 1130 WAS A PRETTY GOOD CUTOFF TIME. WHAT'S YOUR SECURITY PLAN? I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ALREADY HERE. UM, WELL THERE'S KIND OF TWO SECTIONS OF IT THOUGH. THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE WHO ARE DEALING WITH PARKING CARS AND DIRECTING PEOPLE, COMING AND GOING. AND THEN WE HAVE INSIDE SECURITY FOR INSIDE SECURITY. WE HAVE A, IT'S A VERY EFFECTIVE SYSTEM. WE CALL THE CRISIS CONTROL SYSTEM. OKAY. UH, EVERY ACTOR HAS ACCESS TO A LIGHT SWITCH SET. IT'S THREE SWITCHES IN A ROW. THERE'S A WHITE ONE, A YELLOW ONE, AND A RED ONE. MM-HMM . AND IF IT'S A MAINTENANCE ISSUE, THEY CAN FLIP A WHITE LIGHT. AND THEN WE HAVE A MONITORED BOARD THAT WE CUSTOM BUILT UP FRONT THAT SECURITY WATCHES, AND THEY GET ON THE RADIO AND GO, WE HAVE A MAINTENANCE ISSUE IN WHATEVER ROOM. YELLOW LIGHT IS A SECURITY ISSUE, WE NEED SECURITY IN HERE. SOMEBODY'S BEING RUDE TO STAFF OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE. AND THEN WE HAVE A RED LIGHT. AND A RED LIGHT IS KNIFE, GUN, HEART ATTACK, PROFUSE BLEEDING, UNCONSCIOUS SEIZURE, TORNADO LIFE AND DEATH. SO WE'VE NEVER ACTUALLY HAD A REAL RED LIGHT SITUATION BEFORE, BUT EVERY ONE OF OUR STAFFERS DOES HAVE THE ABILITY TO PLAY THE NUCLEAR OPTION AND WE CAN CLEAR THE BUILDING OUT IN JUST A MATTER OF SECONDS. AND THAT'S HOW WE OPERATE THE, THE INDOOR PORTION OF IT. UM, OUR RECORD WITH OUR FIRE MARSHAL, UH, AND YOU WON'T HEAR A LOT OF HAUNTED HOUSE PEOPLE SAY THIS, BUT OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR FIRE MARSHALS IN THE PAST HAVE BEEN VERY GOOD. UH, PART OF OUR APPLICATION HAD A LETTER OF RECOMMENDATION FROM OUR PREVIOUS FIRE MARSHAL, WHICH, UH, IS AS NEAR AS I CAN TELL, BEEN IN THIS INDUSTRY FOR 25 YEARS. I'M THE ONLY PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD WHO HAS EVER GOTTEN THAT BEFORE. BUT, UM, WE TOOK OUR FIRE SAFETY VERY, VERY SERIOUSLY. UM, THAT IS ONE AREA THAT I EXCEL IN. I ALWAYS SAY THAT I SPEAK VERY FLUENT FIRE MARSHAL, BUT, AND THE SECURITY OF OUR PATRONS TOO. 'CAUSE ONCE THEY COME INSIDE OF OUR ESTABLISHMENT, THEIR SAFETY IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY. SO, UM, WE DO A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SECURITY TRAINING AHEAD OF TIME AND, YOU KNOW, WE WON'T JUST LET ANYBODY DO THAT EITHER. THEY NEED TO BE SOMEBODY WHO'S CALM AND LEVEL HEADED AND LIKE ALL THINGS, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BREAKING THE RULES AND BREAKING THE LAW. AND MY STAFF IS THERE TO ENFORCE THE RULES. IF IT'S AN ISSUE OF THE LAW, THEN THAT'S WHEN WE'LL GET LAW ENFORCEMENT INVOLVED IN THAT. BUT FOR THE MOST PART, WE ACTUALLY HAVE VERY, VERY FEW SECURITY ISSUES. UM, GENERALLY WHEN THEY WALK IN THE DOOR AND THEY SEE A SECURITY GUARD IS THE FIRST THING THAT THEY SEE, THEY SEE THAT THEY'RE BEING WATCHED AND MONITORED. UM, THEY GENERALLY DON'T GET TOO, TOO WACKY. NORMALLY MOST OF OUR SECURITY CALLS ARE GROUPS OF TEENAGERS WHO ARE SHOVING EACH OTHER, TRYING TO GET OUT OF THEIR OWN WAY. AND THAT'S GENERALLY AS BAD AS IT GETS. THANK YOU. ARE THERE, EXCUSE ME. ARE THERE, UH, ANY PARTICULAR NIGHTS THAT ARE LARGER CROWDS THAN OTHERS? IT TYPICALLY STARTS OUT A LITTLE BIT LIGHT AND THEN GETS A LITTLE BIT HEAVIER AS THE SEASON GOES ON. THE LAST TWO SATURDAYS ARE PROBABLY GONNA BE THE BIGGEST OF THE TWO NIGHTS, BUT THE DISPARITY BETWEEN OUR BIGGEST NIGHTS AND OUR SMALLEST NIGHTS IS PROBABLY WITHIN 20 TO 25%. SO THEY'RE GENERALLY PRETTY CLOSE. ZACH, CAN YOU SHOW US THE HISTORICAL OVERLAY WHERE THIS BUILDING SETS ON THE HISTORICAL OVERLAY? WE DON'T HAVE THAT LAYER HERE AVAILABLE, SO I APOLOGIZE ABOUT THAT. I'D BE HAPPY TO GET IT TO YOU. UH, BUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DISTRICTS. THERE'S THE DOWNTOWN, UH, HISTORIC OVERLAY AS WELL AS THE WEST MAIN STREET OVERLAY, WHICH COME NEARBY, BUT DON'T NECESSARILY CLIP THIS BUILDING. OKAY. NOTHING FLIPS THAT BUILDING. OKAY. SO IT JUST GOES ON THE STREET RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF IT? YES MA'AM. OKAY. AND I BELIEVE FROM BEING ON HPC, THAT THAT'S CORRECT. THAT THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DOESN'T ACTUALLY COME TO THIS BUILDING. OKAY. OH, AND THERE WAS A QUESTION ASKED OF STAFF ABOUT, UH, THE GUY WHO OWNS D RESTAURANT AND I'VE SPOKEN TO HIM DIRECTLY AND HE IS ABSOLUTELY ON BOARD WITH THIS. OKAY. HE WAS MY VERY FIRST CONVERSATION. 'CAUSE I WAS LIKE, IF THIS IS GONNA UPSET HIM, THEN THERE'S JUST NO POINT IN EVEN TRYING. I'M NOT HERE TO, UH, AS A MATTER OF FACT, IT'S, WE ALSO DO FOOD SERVICES AND WE HAVE MOVED OUR FOOD SERVICES ENTIRELY TO PLANO, TEXAS. UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IF THIS WON'T GO THROUGH . WE WON'T HAVE FOOD ANYMORE. BUT, UH, OUR GOAL IS TO GET PEOPLE DOWN HERE TO PATRONIZE OUR OTHER BUSINESSES. WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME, AND HAUNTED HOUSES ARE CHANGING DRASTICALLY. UH, THEY'RE BECOMING MORE CORPORATE. THEY'RE BECOMING, UH, FLASHIER AND MORE AMAZING BY THE DAY. BUT, YOU KNOW, I, I CAME TO WAXAHATCHEE BECAUSE I WANTED TO LEAVE A LEGACY HERE [00:20:01] AND IT TURNED OUT THAT'S NOT AT ALL WHAT I'M HERE TO DO. I'M HERE TO CREATE A NEW LEGACY AND I WANT TO BE THE PERSON WHO GOES DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE ONE WHO FABRICATED A A BOOM FOR OCTOBER. DENTON, TEXAS HAS BEEN NAMED THE HALLOWEEN CAPITAL OF THE WORLD OR OF THE STATE, WHATEVER THEY'RE BRAGGING ABOUT. AND I HAVEN'T SLEPT RIGHT SINCE I READ THAT AND I CAN'T HAVE THAT. AND AGAIN, AND I KNOW THIS IS OUT OF THE REALM OF WHAT WE'RE HERE TO TODAY TO DISCUSS, BUT WHAT WE'RE WANTING TO DO IS DO A VERY FAMILY FRIENDLY, VERY ATTRACTIVE HALLOWEEN KIND OF OVERLAY FOR DOWNTOWN WITH A 1940S, FIFTIES, UM, VERY VINTAGE KIND OF VIBE TO IT. UM, IF DENTON WANTS TO GET FLASHY AND SLICK WITH LED LIGHTS AND MULTIPLE CONTROLLERS AND ALL THAT, THEN THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE. WE, WE'LL TAKE IT THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION, BUT WE WILL, WE'LL BRING THAT OLD SMALL TOWN CHARM TO IT. I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. UM, AND I THINK THIS WILL BE MY LAST ONE. UM, ASSUME THIS PASSES BOTH HERE AND COUNCIL, WOULD YOU BE OPPOSED TO COMING BACK AND GIVING US, UM, KIND OF SOME OF THE HOW EVERYTHING WENT? UM, OH, AFTER THE SEASON'S OVER? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. BECAUSE I, I'D BE INTERESTED TO KNOW THAT'S, THAT'S HONESTLY, THAT'S A BIG QUESTION WE'RE GONNA HAVE FOR OURSELVES TOO. 'CAUSE BEING AN AN OLD ESTABLISHMENT, BUT BEING IN A NEW SPOT, IT'S ESSENTIALLY GONNA BE A NEW EVENT. AND THERE WILL PROBABLY BE A LOT OF GROWING PAINS. I MEAN, THE LESSONS WILL, THERE'LL BE THINGS HALFWAY THROUGH THE SEASON WHERE WE GO, OKAY, WE HAVE TO SHUFFLE THIS AND HAVE TO SHUFFLE THAT. BUT, UM, OUR GOAL IS TO ALWAYS TRY TO MAKE THINGS SMOOTHER AND MORE EFFICIENT AS MUCH AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. UH, ONE OTHER THING THAT, UM, I DIDN'T GET MENTIONED BUT GOT BROUGHT UP WAS THE NOISE. MM-HMM . UH, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT WE HAD DONE IS WE ACTUALLY CONDUCTED OUR OWN SOUND PRESSURE LEVEL TESTS IN THIS BUILDING. SO, UH, WHAT WE ENDED UP DOING WAS WE GOT A BULLHORN AND WE WERE ABLE TO MEASURE THE SOUND PRESSURE LEVELS OF THAT. WE WENT THROUGH OUR EXISTING SHOWS IN RED AND WE TOOK THE AVERAGE SOUND PRESSURE LEVELS OF EACH OF THE SHOWS INSIDE WHILE THEY WERE IN OPERATION WITH THE AUDIO AND THE STAFF AND THE CUSTOMERS IN THERE AND ESTABLISHED A BASELINE. AND WE DOUBLED THAT DECIBEL WISE, WHICH IS MORE LIKE QUADRUPLING IT 'CAUSE DECIBELS ARE, UH, EXPONENTIAL. AND WHAT WE DISCOVERED WAS OUTSIDE THE BUILDING, EVEN SOUND PRESSURE LEVELS WERE ABOUT EQUAL WITH TRAFFIC PASSING BY AT THE FENCE LINE. THEY WERE CONVERSATIONAL LEVEL. AND THERE'S A BREAKDOWN IN THERE THAT ACTUALLY HAS A, UH, A DIAGRAM AND A GRID THAT WE DID OF THE SOUND PRESSURE LEVELS AS THEY WERE OUTSIDE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANNA BE A NUISANCE EITHER. UM, I MEAN, I'M A RESIDENT HERE AND I LOVE BEING HERE. AND OTHER THAN THE SOUND OF A TRAIN COMING OFF THE TRACKS LAST NIGHT, WAKING US UP OUTSIDE OF THAT, UH, I LIKE THE FACT THAT IT'S PRETTY QUIET HERE AND I, I DO WANT TO PRESERVE THAT. I LOVE MY NEIGHBORHOOD. I LIVE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. I LOVE THE FACT THAT I CAN GO OUTSIDE AT NIGHT AND GO FOR WALKS AND IT'S RELATIVELY QUIET AND YEAH, WE'RE NOT HERE TO BE AN EYESORE OR AN EAR SORE. UM, BUT WE FEEL LIKE WE HAVE A LOT OF GOOD THAT WE CAN BRING TO THE COMMUNITY. SURE. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE LIKE TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST? PARDON ME. I'M GOING TO READ MY COMMENTS TO MAKE SURE THAT I STAY WITHIN FIVE MINUTES. MY NAME'S JOHN WEEDLE. I LIVE AT FOUR 17 WEST JEFFERSON. ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE BEING ASKED TO ALLOW BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT IN AN AREA THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE LAYOUT OR INFRASTRUCTURE TO SUPPORT THE OPERATION OF THAT BUSINESS. I'M NOT AGAINST A BUSINESS OF APPROPRIATE SIZE AT THE PROPOSED LOCATION. I ENJOY HAVING D RESTAURANT CLOSE BY, BUT D RESTAURANT DOES NOT COME CLOSE TO BRINGING 380 PEOPLE PLUS EMPLOYEES INTO A CONSTRAINED AREA. THERE IS ONLY, THERE'S ONLY ACCESS TO AND EXIT FROM THIS LOCATION IN TWO DIRECTIONS BECAUSE RAILROAD STREET HEADING WEST IS ESSENTIALLY USELESS BECAUSE OF ITS CONDITION. AND THERE'S NO STREET HEADING SOUTH THAT TAKES YOU OUT OF THE AREA. PATTERSON STREET ITSELF IS NARROW AND UNDER CLOSE INSPECTION IS IN POOR CONDITION. THE NORTH SECTION OF PATTERSON, BEGINNING NEAR WEST JEFFERSON AND GOING ALMOST TO THE D RESTAURANT PARKING LOT ENTRANCE IS ESPECIALLY PROBLEMATIC. THE EASTERN EDGE OF THE ROAD HAVING NO CURB HAS BEEN ERODING FOR YEARS AND CONTINUES TO DO SO. THERE IS CURRENTLY A DROP OFF OF ABOUT A FOOT OR MORE FROM THE EDGE OF THE STREET TO THE WASHED OUT, GOLLY UNDER IT. IF A CAR HEADING NORTH GETS OVER TOO FAR TO AVOID ONCOMING SOUTHBOUND [00:25:01] TRAFFIC FROM THE PATTERSON STREET JEFFERSON INTERSECTION, IT IS IN DANGER OF ACTUALLY TILTING OFF THE ROAD, WHICH WOULD CREATE A SERIOUS TRAFFIC CONCERN WITH VOLUME TRAFFIC AT NIGHT. SUCH AN OCCURRENCE IS NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION ALREADY. PEOPLE HEADING NORTH ON PATTERSON AT THE STOP SIGN OFTEN ARE FOUND WAITING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD TO AVOID PROBLEMS. THIS FORCES CARS TURNING ONTO PATTERSON TO CUT THE CORNER TO MAKE THE TURN OR WAIT FOR THE STOPPED CAR TO EXIT ONTO JEFFERSON. THE CORNER CUTTING AREA IS PART OF THE PROPOSED PARKING AREA AT 5 0 1 WEST JEFFERSON. SIGNIFICANT TRAFFIC HERE WILL ALSO MAKE THOSE PARKING SPACES ON PATTERSON JUST MORE OF A CONGESTION FACTOR, WHETHER IT'S WHETHER THE GULLY IS FIXED OR NOT. THIS PROPOSAL SOLUTION TO THE DEFICIENCY OF REQUIRED DEDICATED OFF STREET PARKING RELIES ON PUBLIC LOTS BLOCKS AWAY. CITY STAFF HAS A CONDITION FOR APPROVAL THAT ON STREET PARKING SHALL BE PROHIBITED ALONG PATTERSON STREET AND WEST MADISON STREET. THAT ALONE IS NOT GOING TO PREVENT CONGESTED OR CONSTRAINED TRAFFIC BY PARKING IN THE AREA ALONG BOTH SIDES AND NEARBY STREETS. WE ALREADY HAVE A CURRENT DEMONSTRATION OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN OFF STREET PARKING THERE. AN ESTABLISHMENT IS INADEQUATE BASED ON EXPECTED CLIENT VOLUMES RESULTING IN RESTRICTED TRAFFIC FLOW. DURING PEAK TIMES. AT THE TWO AMIGOS RESTAURANT LOCATED AT 2 41 MONROE, THEIR PRIME PARKING LOT BECOMES WEST JEFFERSON STREET. AS THE RESTAURANT HAS NO DEDICATED OFF STREET PARKING OF ITS OWN, YOU THEN SEE CARS LINED UP LITERALLY FROM THE STOP SIGN AND CROSSWALK ON BOTH SIDES OF WEST JEFFERSON, BEGINNING AT THE INTERSECTION AND GOING HALFWAY DOWN THE BLOCK. THE RESULT IS THAT WEST JEFFERSON DURING THOSE TIMES ESSENTIALLY BECOMES A ONE-WAY STREET, HAVING TO HANDLE TWO-WAY TRAFFIC, ENDANGERING TRAFFIC TURNING FROM MONROE AND BLOCKING THE FREE FLOW OF TRAFFIC ON WEST JEFFERSON. LIKEWISE, ON THE WEEKEND RAIL PORT BREWING OVERFLOW PARKING ON BOTH SIDES OF MADISON ESSENTIALLY MAKES MADISON A ONE LANE AT A TIME ROAD ON THE WEEKENDS. FRIDAY AND SATURDAY THAT MAD MADISON STREET IS BLOCKED. YOU CANNOT GET TWO CARS GOING, GOING OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS THROUGH THERE. MY DRIVEWAY BACKS UP ONTO PATTERSON MOST DAYS. I DRIVE OVER THE NORTH SECTION OF PATTERSON THAT WILL BE USED BY TRAFFIC COMING AND LEAVING VIA WEST JEFFERSON. I PERHAPS BETTER THAN ANYONE KNOWS HOW TRAFFIC PATTERNS AT THIS INTERSECTION WORK. THERE WILL BE NOTHING CLOSE TO ACCEPTABLE AND SAFE TRAFFIC FLOW AT THIS INTERSECTION DURING OPERATING HOURS OF THIS ESTABLISHMENT. ESPECIALLY WITH THE PLANNED PARKING AT THE INTERSECTION, IT WILL BE A BOTTLENECK, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT. IT IS NAIVE TO BELIEVE PEOPLE WHO CANNOT PARK NEAR THE ESTABLISHMENT ARE GOING TO DRIVE BLOCKS AWAY TO PARK IN A PUBLIC PARKING LOTS. WE KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO PARK JUST LIKE THOSE TWO AMIGOS CUSTOMERS, THEY'RE GOING TO PARK ON THE NEAREST STREET. IF THIS REQUEST IS APPROVED, THE CITY STAFF'S ON STREET PARKING PROHIBITION SHOULD ALSO INCLUDE JEFFERSON AND FRANKLIN. BUT WE KNOW PEOPLE WILL IGNORE THIS JUST LIKE THOSE ON WEST JEFFERSON THAT ILLEGALLY PARK RIGHT UP TO. AND EVEN NEXT TO THE STOP SIGN AT MONROE TO GET TO TWO AMIGOS, THE PROHIBITION IS MEANINGLESS. PLACING SUCH A VOLUME BUSINESS IN AN AREA THAT HAS EXCEPTIONALLY POOR TRAFFIC HANDLING CAPABILITY TO START WITH DURING BUSINESS HOURS IS NOT THE SITUATION TO BEND OR IGNORE PARKING CODES THAT ARE THERE TO PREVENT SUCH STREET CONGESTION AND TO TRY TO JUSTIFY THE PROBLEM AWAY BY SIDING PUBLIC BLOCKS, BLOCKS AWAY WHEN PEOPLE INCLUDING EMPLOYEES WILL FIND THE NEAREST PARKING SPOT ON A NEARBY STREET. AND IN DOING SO, CONGEST TRAFFIC THERE DOES NOT EXCUSE THE INAPPROPRIATE LOCATION FOR THIS ENTERPRISE. THIS REQUEST SHOULD BE DENIED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. ANYONE ELSE? YES MA'AM. NAME AND ADDRESS FOR CITY SECRETARY KATHLEEN BOWEN, 5 27 WEST JEFFERSON. UH, THIS REQUEST SHOULD BE RECOMMENDED FOR DENIAL BECAUSE THE LOCATION IS UNSUITABLE FOR THIS TYPE OF BUSINESS. THERE ARE THREE MAIN REASONS AND THE FIRST IS SAFETY. AND IT'S NOT SAFETY INSIDE THE BUILDING, IT'S SAFETY OUTSIDE THE BUILDING. UM, THE OPERATIONAL PLAN STATES THAT 380 ATTENDEES PER DAY WILL BE REQUIRED TO PRE-PURCHASE TICKETS IN 30 MINUTE INTERVALS. THIS ASSUMES THAT ALL THESE ATTENDEES ARE GOING TO PRE-PURCHASE TICKETS, THAT THE ATTENDEES ARE GONNA BE ON TIME THAT THEY HAVE READ AND ARE GONNA FOLLOW THE PARKING DIRECTIONS, YOU KNOW, UH, AHEAD OF TIME THAT THEY AREN'T RUNNING LATE, THEY AREN'T IN A HURRY. UM, AND THEY DON'T MIND PARKING FAR AWAY. UH, THE PLAN JUST SAYS THE STREET WILL REMAIN ACCESSIBLE AND NO STREET WILL BE BLOCKED, BUT IT DOESN'T FULLY ADDRESS HOW THAT'S GOING TO OCCUR. ADDING 380 MORE PEOPLE, WHICH IS ROUGHLY MAYBE A HUNDRED CARS, IF YOU GET MOM, DAD, AND TWO KIDS IN THE CAR COMING AND GOING IN THAT AREA IN THE DARK, IS GOING TO LEAD TO A DANGEROUS CONDITION. UH, EMERGENCY VEHICLES ARE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE AREA. EXISTING RESIDENTS AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THEIR HOUSES. UM, JUST THINK ABOUT THE PARKING WHEN SIMS LIBRARY HAS AN EVENT. [00:30:01] WEST JEFFERSON IS A ONE LANE ROAD. SO, AND THAT'S JUST A SMALL LIBRARY EVENT. UM, WE'VE SEEN THE TRAFFIC THAT BACKS UP ON THE I 35 FRONTAGE ROAD BY FM 66 WHEN SCARBOROUGH FAIR AND SCREAMS IS IN PLACE. YOU KNOW, GOING ON 500 WEST MADISON IN THE SURROUNDING STREETS LIKE PATTERSON DO NOT SUPPORT LARGE VOLUMES OF TRAFFIC. ALLOWING THIS TYPE OF BUSINESS TO BE IN THE AREA WILL LEAD TO OVERCROWDING UNSAFE CONDITIONS, VERBAL AND PHYSICAL ALTERCATIONS, PARKING ISSUES, LITTER IN OPERATIONAL DRAIN ON STAFF AND LAW ENFORCEMENT. UH, THE SECOND REASON IT SHOULD BE DENIED IS THAT IT, IT WILL VIOLATE CHAPTER 20 OF THE WAXAHATCHEE CODE OF ORDINANCES. THE TIMES ARE, YOU KNOW, ROUGHLY EIGHT TO 1130. UM, THE SHUTDOWN AND CLEANUP NEEDS TO OCCUR, WHICH IS GONNA MAKE IT GO PAST MIDNIGHT. UM, THE PLANNING ANALYSIS SAID THAT CHAPTER 20 WILL NEED TO BE ADHERED TO, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW IT CAN BE BECAUSE ALREADY YOU'RE GOING PAST THE 11 O'CLOCK REQUIRED TIME. UM, AND AGAIN, THIS ASSUMES THAT THE ATTENDEES THAT ARE COMING AND GOING EVERY 30 OR 45 MINUTES ARE GONNA BE QUIET UNTIL THEY GET INSIDE THE BUILDING. UM, THAT'S UNREALISTIC. I MEAN, THIS IS A HAUNTED HOUSE. PEOPLE ARE THERE TO HAVE FUN. THEY'RE GONNA BE YELLING AND SCREAMING, UM, BEFORE THEY GET IN THE BUILDING. UM, AND THE FUN IS GONNA CONTINUE PAST MIDNIGHT. SO THE NOISE THAT WILL BE GENERATED FROM THIS TYPE OF BUSINESS IN THE PROPOSED HOURS OF OPERATION VIOLATE CHAPTER 20 OF THE WAXAHATCHEE CODE OF ORDINANCES. THE THIRD REASON IS THAT IT VIOLATES CONDITION FOUR OF THE RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL. AND I DON'T KNOW IF ZACH CAN BRING UP, UH, EXHIBIT E, UM, TO, FOR A VISUAL, BUT CONDITION FOUR SAID THAT THE DRIVEWAY, THE DRIVE AISLE AROUND 500 WEST MADISON STREET AND THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY ADJACENT TO 500 WEST MADISON STREET SHALL REMAIN UNOBSTRUCTED. AND IF YOU LOOK AT EXHIBIT E, THE PARKING PLAN, THE ENTRANCE AND EXIT ARE THERE IN THE BOTTOM, THE, UH, BLUE OVAL AND THE ORANGE THING, AND THEN THE DOTTED RED LINES OR THE PEDESTRIAN ACCESS. UH, THAT RIGHT OF WAY IS THAT ROAD THERE AT THE BOTTOM. AND IT, IT HAS A LINE, BUT THERE'S NO ROOM FOR PEDESTRIANS TO WALK BESIDE THAT RIGHT OF WAY. THEY WILL HAVE TO WALK ON THE RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH AUTOMATICALLY SAYS THAT IS GOING TO BE OBSTRUCTED. IT WILL BE PEOPLE COMING AND GOING CONSTANTLY ON THAT RIGHT OF WAY BECAUSE, UM, THERE IS JUST NO, THERE'S NO ROOM THERE. SO KATHLEEN, YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S NO SIDEWALKS, THERE'S, WELL, THERE'S NO SIDEWALK, THERE'S ALSO JUST NO ROOM BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND WHERE THAT RED DASH LINE IS IN THAT RIGHT OF WAY. SO THAT RIGHT OF WAY WILL ALWAYS BE OBSTRUCTED FROM PEOPLE COMING AND GOING. SO AGAIN, THIS IS VIOLATING THE CONDITIONS FOR APPROVAL. SO FOR THOSE THREE REASONS, SAFETY VIOLATING CHAPTER 20 AND VIOLATING CONDITION FOUR OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS, IT SHOULD BE DENIED. BUT I DO HAVE A, A QUICK QUESTION, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS, BUT THINK ABOUT IT. UM, AND I THINK, WENDY, YOU TOUCHED ON THIS A LITTLE BIT. IF THIS SUP IS APPROVED, WHAT AGENCY, WHAT GROUP, WHAT DEPARTMENT WITHIN THE CITY IS GOING TO MONITOR IT AND MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT QUEUING UP OUTSIDE THAT THE DRIVE AISLES REMAIN UNOBSTRUCTED IN ANY OTHER CONDITIONS THAT MIGHT BE VIOLATED? WHAT, WHAT GROUP DOES THAT? UM, SO I SUGGEST THAT THIS BE RECOMMENDED FOR DENIAL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MA'AM. HE SAID THANK YOU. I SAID THANK YOU MA'AM. , AGAIN, THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE LIKE TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST THIS ITEM? SEEING NO ONE. WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. [6. Consider recommendation of ZDC-69-2025] ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENTS? MY BIGGEST COMMENT OR CONCERN, UM, ABOUT THIS, KATHLEEN SAID IT PRETTY ELOQUENTLY, IF YOU'RE THERE ON THE WEEKEND, IT'S HARD TO GET DOWN THE STREET. AND IF YOU'RE ADDING PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S THE RIGHT LOCATION FOR WHAT YOU WANNA DO. I THINK WHAT YOU WANNA DO IS GREAT. I JUST DUNNO, THIS IS THE RIGHT LOCATION TO DO IT. ANYONE ELSE? I LOVE A GOOD HAUNTED HOUSE AND I'VE BEEN TO REINDEER MANOR AND TAKING MY KIDS TO REINDEER MANOR AND I LOVE FESTIVALS IN TOWN. I LOVE THE TRAFFIC THAT FESTIVALS GENERATE WHEN THEY'RE IN TOWN. AND I LOVE THAT Y'ALL WERE MOVING TO THAT [00:35:01] OTHER LOCATION AND I WAS IN FAVOR OF THAT OTHER LOCATION AND VOTED FOR IT WHEN, WHEN Y'ALL TRIED TO GO INTO THE LOCATION ON JACKSON STREET. BUT THAT BEING SAID, AND I HAVE DRIVEN HERE AND I'VE BEEN DOWN THERE AT THE RESTAURANTS ON FRIDAY AND SATURDAY NIGHTS AND, AND, AND HAVE DRIVEN IT AGAIN TWO OR THREE DIFFERENT TIMES, JUST LOOKING AT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE. AND I JUST CAN'T, I JUST CAN'T SEE IT. I CAN SEE THE LOCATION AND IT'S A PERFECT LOCATION FOR A HAUNTED HOUSE IN THE INDUSTRIAL AREA THAT'S DOWN BY THE RAILROAD TRACKS. IT, IT, IT MAKES FOR A PERFECT HAUNTED HOUSE, BUT PEOPLE ARE GONNA DRIVE WHERE THEY WANT TO DRIVE AND YOU KNOW, NO AMOUNT OF SOMEONE TRYING TO POINT 'EM SOMEWHERE IS, AND, AND THE, THE THE POINT THERE AT, AT WHERE MADISON AND PATTERSON COME TOGETHER, IT'S JUST, I JUST CAN'T SEE WHERE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A LOGISTICAL NIGHTMARE AND A DANGEROUS SITUATION FOR PEDESTRIANS TO WALK. AND THAT'S THE MAIN, IT'S, IT'S NOTHING THAT Y'ALL HAVE DONE, IT'S JUST THOSE STREETS ARE IN A CONDITION THAT JUST CAN'T HANDLE THE VOLUME OF TRAFFIC THAT'S GOING TO BE THERE IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. AND THE, AND THE PEDESTRIANS THAT ARE GONNA HAVE TO WALK WITH NO SIDEWALKS. I, I HATE IT. I I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A HAUNTED HOUSE THERE, BUT I JUST, I'M JUST SEEING IN MY MIND SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S GOING TO OCCUR ON THOSE FRIDAY AND SATURDAY NIGHTS WHEN IT'S JUST PACKED DOWN THERE AND Y'ALL HAVE DONE EVERYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO TRY TO MITIGATE THAT. AND MAYBE IT, MAYBE IT WOULD WORK. I DON'T KNOW. I JUST, I WOULD HATE, WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET PAST IS I WOULD HATE WITH THAT VOLUME OF TRAFFIC AND WHERE THERE'S NO ONE PLACE TO WALK AND THERE'S KIDS AND TEENAGERS RUNNING AROUND EVERYWHERE 'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA DO IT JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE OUT ON HALLOWEEN AND SOMETHING HAPPENED THAT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN WITH ALL THAT VEHICULAR TRAFFIC. I JUST, AS MUCH AS I'D LOVE TO HAVE IT, I JUST CAN'T, CAN'T GET AROUND, CAN'T GET PAST THAT. SO ANYWAY, ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS? NO, SIR. IF NOT, CHAIR, WE'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE TO RECOMMEND DENIAL OF ZDC 69 20 25. A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR AN AMUSEMENT INDOOR HAUNTED HOUSE USE. WE HAVE A MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND? I SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. ANY OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIES THREE TO TWO. ALL RIGHT. THAT IS THE LAST ITEM THAT WE HAVE ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA. CLINTON, ZACH, ANYTHING FOR US? UM, YEAH, WE JUST WANNA BRING UP TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT, UH, DUE TO RECENT LEGISLATION WE'RE HAVING TO MOVE UP SOME OF OUR CIAC MEETINGS, OUR IMPACT FEE MEETINGS. UM, WHAT GENERALLY WAS A PROCESS THAT WOULD GO TILL THE END OF DECEMBER OR AROUND DECEMBER TIME HAS BEEN ALL PUSHED UP TO, WE HAVE TO DO A MAJORITY BEFORE SEPTEMBER 1ST. UM, OR THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT FALL IF WE DON'T MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS. SO, UH, YOU'LL, YOU'LL START SEEING SOME MORE MEETINGS COMING UP VERY QUICKLY. UM, I THINK ONE, TWO WEEKS. ANOTHER ONE, UH, TWO WEEKS AFTER THAT. UM, AND IT'S GONNA BE A LOT OF INFORMATION, UM, UNFORTUNATELY THROWN AT YOU ALL AT ONE TIME. UM, AS USUAL, WE'LL BE HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR YOU. WE'LL HAVE OUR CONSULTANTS, UM, IN, IN THE TIME BETWEEN THE MEETINGS, FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT TO US, BUT YOU SHOULD BE RECEIVING INFORMATION SHORTLY ABOUT THOSE TWO MEETINGS. AND THOSE ARE THE 24TH AND THE EIGHTH. UH, YEAH, SO THE FIRST MEETING, WE'RE LOOKING AT JUNE 24TH AND THE SECOND MEETING WOULD BE JULY 8TH AND THE 24TH IS A MEETING. NO, YEAH, THAT, SO THAT'LL BE RIGHT BEFORE PLANNING COMMISSION JULY 8TH. WE HAVE, WE HAVE A LEGAL DEADLINE WE HAVE TO MEET. UM, SO WE CAN'T HAVE THAT ONE ON A REGULAR MEETING DATE. IT JUST DOESN'T, THE CARDS DON'T FALL INTO PLACE. SO WE WILL HAVE THAT AROUND FIVE 30 ON JULY 8TH. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE KIND OF GEARING FOR. SO WE APPRECIATE ATTENDANCE, IT'S IMPORTANT SO WE CAN GET A QUORUM. OKAY. OKAY. MS. JOHNSON, ANYTHING FOR US? NO SIR. MARLENE, ANYTHING FOR US? NO, SIR. JENNY, ANYTHING? I JUST WANNA THANK Y'ALL FOR WANTING TO INVEST IN OUR COMMUNITY AND I REALLY HOPE THAT YOU CAN FIND SOMETHING THAT WILL, WILL WORK. YEAH, THAT SAID TERRY, ANYTHING FOR US? SAME HERE. I APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR EFFORTS. YEP. COUNCILMAN, ANYTHING? NOTHING. I TURNED OFF RED LIGHT. RED LIGHT . UM, OH. UM, I KNOW THAT ALEX HAS BEEN PUTTING A TON OF WORK IN ON THIS AND UM, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS NOT BEEN WEEKS, BUT IT'S BEEN MONTHS. UM, ONE THING I DO WANT TO APPRE APPRECIATE HERE [00:40:01] IS THAT HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN IT, AND THIS IS THE WAY PLANNING AND ZONING IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, WHERE YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, I HATE WHEN PEOPLE DON'T COME IN TO SUPPORT OR TO GO AGAINST. UM, SO, UH, WITH THAT I JUST, I JUST WANNA, UH, POINT OUT TO FOLKS WHEN, IF THEY'RE SUPPORT SOMETHING OR IF THEY'RE AGAINST IT, YOU NEED TO COME IN AND, AND LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD. AND UM, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. BUT IT WAS VERY RESPECTFUL ON BOTH SIDES I THOUGHT. AND UM, SO HOPEFULLY WE'LL CITIZENS WILL TAKE THIS TO HEART. THANK YOU SIR. ALRIGHT, THAT IS LAST ITEM. WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU, SIR. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.